cost of emergency room visit after car accident

Medicare and my insurance covered $1000 of the bill. due to Covid Urgent care was closed near my house. I think the adjmt was to make me think I got a cash discount. Gayle Carson has had three animals (of many) over the years with pet emergencies that racked up charges of $5,000 . When you go to the emergency room after a car accident, you have the assurance that you're in compliance with the law, and you can receive your no-fault benefits. ER nurses treat patients who are suffering from trauma, injury or severe medical conditions and require urgent treatment. Getting your car insurer to reimburse you for the out-of-pocket cost of an emergency room visit or follow-up visits with your doctor could save you hundreds of dollars. Iv,1 pain shot,Ct Scan and ultra sound...Gallbladder full of stones,but Dr.told me I had a viral infection and would be better in a week...sent me home with script for nausea meds nothing for pain.I spent 2 days in horrific pain passing stones.This is why people refuse to go the the Dr/hospital. If you delay getting medical attention, the insurance company will always claim that you have a "gap in treatment" and will try to pay you less than your injuries are worth. We paid the copay, and the bill came to $2,657.00, of which insurance paid just over $2,000, leaving me with a bill of over $500 for 5 stitches. Never saw a DR just the LPN. And I say "purported" because one trip . Between $1,400 and $3,300 for five purported CT scans. That can damage your credit. Meds didn’t work. New itemized bill only showed er visit $419, lidocaine $8.47, and 'ED Proc Cat 2' $2,238.00. Found inside – Page 915 Things You Need to Know After Any Car Accident Michael Montesi ... track all of the doctor's office appointments, emergency room visits, diagnostic tests, ... In a worst-case scenario, your account may get sent to collections while you wait for insurers to decide who’s responsible for the bill, according to a report from Credit.com. Get a Quote. I was there in hospital only for 15 minutes. You’ll pay an average of 41% more for insurance after making just one claim, according to a survey by InsuranceQuotes.com. For patients covered by health insurance, out-of-pocket cost for an emergency room visit typically consists of a copay, usually, For patients without health insurance, an emergency room visit typically costs from, Services, diagnostic tests and laboratory fees add to the final bill. What to do if you are not treated properly in an emergency room? That's why it's crucial to have an emergency plan in place—before you need it. But if you don’t have comprehensive or collision coverage, you may have to pay for the repairs yourself. After 20 minutes gave me an EKG. Call 911 or Go to the Emergency Room The hospital department that provides emergency services to patients who need immediate medical attention. These are some costs for typical repairs to your car after an accident: Bumper replacement: $880 to $1,390. I refused & said I said I will go to a neurologist on my own. no mini stroke, it was dehydration. Toddler hit her head and had a blue bump on forehead. My insurance is not paying anything because of my deductible. This expense is a real wild card, since even small accidents can result in costly ambulance rides and trips to the emergency room. He used saline and gauze to cleanse, lidocaine and syringe to numb, needle and thread for 5 stitches, gauze to bandage. Self pay never advised of what this would cost, if I had known medicare part a would not cover I would have left. Car repairs. I ask for an itemized receipt they told me that is their flat rate cost for emergency room visits to check my vitals. If your doctor admits you to the same hospital for a related condition within 3 days of your emergency department visit, you don't pay the copayment because your visit is . According to the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, in 2008, about 18%of emergency room patients waited less than 15 minutes to see a doctor, about 37%waited 15 minutes to an hour, about 15% waited one to two hours, about 5% waited two to three hours, about 2% waited three to four hours, and about 1.5% waited four to six hours. Which was high. That could mean three or four separate accidents for someone who starts driving at 16 and stops getting behind the wheel at 80. Your insurer will cover the cost of a rental if you have rental reimbursement coverage, otherwise, you’ll end up paying for a temporary set of wheels yourself. In 2016, 9.2 million people required emergency room treatment from fall-related injuries. Make sure you go to an emergency room. This edited collection of articles addresses aspects of medical care in which human error is associated with unanticipated adverse outcomes. The average driver files a collision claim about once every 18 years, according to insurance industry estimates. When to go to the emergency room after a car accident? Those 27,000-plus daily accidents cost Americans $871 billion every year in lost productivity, property damage, medical bills, legal fees, and other expenses, according to a 2014 study by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA). We take the time to listen to you and answer your questions. So it was $2427.00 with insurance. Clinics are typically open after hours and on the weekends and can treat non-life-threatening issues like: In order to mitigate unnecessary emergency room visits, and increase and improve access to urgent care needs within 24 hours for its patients and TRICARE beneficiaries, Madigan Army Medical Center . If you think you're having a stroke, you'll want to find the nearest facility that knows how to care for stroke patients. Got a rude shock when they charge me with huge bill. I am refusing to pay that portion of the bill. We cover camping gear. Lisa Martin's ex's dog racked up a bill of $4,000 after being hit by a car. was sent I had an expensive insurance plan that only covered $350 of lab and $100 of Emergency Room admission The Dr billed separate and it was $1,454. Found inside – Page 33One uninsured car accident or trip to the emergency room can cost you more than a year's premiums. As soon as you can afford it, plan to add life and ... It is hard to say how any one doctor would act during the life and death scenarios they are faced with during the course of their day. Often times they are crowded places, full of sick and injured people all in need of immediate care. There are many things that could go wrong for a patient who is being seen in an emergency room environment. No water given, no parking validated. Treatment must be received within Your health insurance might pay for some of the ER visit, but your health coverage may require you to pay a $2,000 deductible and a co-insurance payment for the emergency medical services. Remember that the copay for visiting the emergency room is considerably higher than the copay for visiting your PCP. Depending on the severity of your health crisis, an emergency room may still be the best option for you even if it does end up costing more in the long term. I won't be paying, and I won't be going back to an ER unless I or someone I love is certainly going to die for not going. Ambulance Services: Emergency & Non-Emergency Medical Response. cost of medical bills due to additional corrective treatment; loss of earning capacity, and; loss of the ability to enjoy life. Very simple situation. Found inside – Page 33I spent about three hours in the emergency room at each visit . ... carried the story of a man who had no insurance who was involved in a car accident . Waited an hour between each of the 3 tests to see Dr. 2. Took bloodwork, gave me a IV fluid. For the most part, insurers pay for those trips to the emergency room. I left, and my discharge paperwork said, prescription: Go on diet for heart health!!!! Accidents can happen anytime, anywhere. Benefits paid directly to you. And it reimburses physicians costs at the rate . I requested an itemized bill, and pointed out the original diagnosis mentioned scalp wound. No emergency, but didn't know it was called 'the emergency room'. Ultra sore stomach. Anyways, I'm going to call to negotiate but why is it is it negotiable?! This does not apply to: In 2 months I’m nearly in $100,000 debt! In the Ambulance . A medicine for depression is on the market for people that showed no improvement on regular antidepressants, and these are people like on the verge! Also, keep in mind that if you’re not at fault in the accident, the other person’s insurance should cover the cost of your rental, though there may be limits on how much the company will pay per day. CostHelper is based in Silicon Valley and provides consumers with unbiased price information about thousands of goods and services. The technician tested my glucose level. Here are 5 common examples, in no particular order. All for 129 dollars!!! They just confirmed what I already knew (that I'm pregnant) and couldn't explain the bleeding, just told me it was common sometimes. 5 common unexpected expenses (and how to plan for them) The ideal approach to preparing for an unexpected expense varies depending on its type. "The only things I got were ibuprofen, two staples and a saline injection. Walked in to hospital shortness of breath and heart palpitations. We have relationships with the most . Emergency room cost was covered by Medicare & private insurance. Emergency Department. Here are some estimates from Medica, a health insurance company, of how the cost of treating specific illnesses in . Emergency room visits cost more than a visit to your Primary Care Physician (PCP), so you want to be absolutely sure you need to go to the emergency room. For example, Ventura County Medical Center, The American College of Emergency Physicians Foundation offers a primer, In most cases, it is recommended to go to the nearest emergency room. A spike in insurance premiums is the most obvious consequence of a car accident. 1 use of savings. If your doctor admits you to the same hospital for a related condition within 3 days of your emergency department visit, you don't pay the copayment because your visit is . Insurance should cover most or all of these costs, assuming you or the at-fault driver has coverage of some sort. They just emailed me a bill for their misdiagnosis! But you may get a break, as some insurers won’t hike your premiums after a minor accident, especially if you have a spotless driving record. A visit to the ER - If you are experiencing any type of pain immediately after the accident, or if children were involved, go to the emergency room for evaluation immediately. After that, the doctor hardly spent 5 minutes talking to me and another 5 minutes to write the prescription. The "NWCG Standards for Interagency Incident Business Management" assists participating agencies of the NWCG to constructively work together to provide effective execution of each agency's incident business management program by ... How do I get my 401k from Walmart after being fired? In addition, the number of uninsured in the country continues to rise, with many more being the "working poor." $5225 for a health check; for nothing found. is the average cost of an emergency room visit in 2016 (up more than 31% from 2012). After a car accident, getting medical care can become a tricky situation if a number of different insurance policies are in place. However, some commonly used methods by car insurance companies include: Multiplier method: Multiply the total medical bills related to the car accident injuries by a number from 1 (for more minor injuries) to 5 (for more severe injuries) to find the pain and suffering amount. On top of the standard fee, companies may also charge $12.50 per mile driven. Here's a rundown of average costs of some typical reasons for a visit: If you come to the ER as a result of a car accident or some other very serious injury, one cost you will likely encounter is the trauma fee. When you go to the emergency room after a car accident, you have the assurance that you’re in compliance with the law, and you can receive your no-fault benefits. If money is tight, you're in a Catch-22 situation―you need the auto insurance settlement, but if you accept the first offer you'll risk cutting yourself off from financial compensation should any long-term injury effects surface. Rachel Collier paid $9,038 for a CT scan in an ER that ran $318 in an outpatient clinic. If gas stations worked like health care, you wouldn't find out until the pump switched off whether you . They diagnosed me with GERD! The immediate, short-term expenses will be top of mind if you get injured in a car crash. We respond to your telephone calls and emails. We use cookies to ensure that we give you the best experience on our website. This field manual provides information on the mission, organization, and responsibilities for preventive medicine support operation through the operational continuum. Help pay for costs not covered by your medical insurance with Unum Accident Insurance. Emergency room copays can cost you hundreds of dollars. The least expense trip is one that is deemed as a non-emergency. The itemized bill did not show the original charge & revised after their adjustment for each item. I was in and out in 1 hour. For example, say you had to go to the emergency room with injuries after an accident. Took in thought it might be appendix. Treatment must be . Found inside – Page 1504... of which were to determine the cost , prevalence , frequency of reporting ... in an Accident & Emergency Department , following a road traffic accident ... $115-$160 Emergency Room Care Typical Cost Estimate Care for Illness and Injury in the Emergency Room (ER) (includes costs associated with physicians, facilities, and common . time this booklet was printed Changes may occur after printing Visit Medicare gov, or call 1-800-MEDICARE (1-800-633-4227) to get the . Paying Medical Bills Before Getting Personal Injury Compensation. 4. Repairing scratches: $150 to $3,500. You also pay 20% of the Medicare-Approved Amount for your doctor's services, and the Part B deductible [glossary] applies. After Lab and IV and cat I was taken to cat scan which was about 1.5 hours then taken back to room. Not including the doctors fees. Just 39% of Americans say they have enough savings to cover a $1,000 emergency room visit or car repair, according to data released Thursday . Average cost was up about 7.7% from 2017. . Can a nurse be negligent in a car accident? Call us today at 1-800-747-3733 to get started on your free consultation. What kind of injuries do emergency nurses get? Depending on the size of your loan and the value of your car, you could be on the hook for thousands of dollars. Found insideThe volume's contributors demonstrate that implementation of a range of prevention strategies-presented in an essential package of interventions and policies-could achieve a convergence in death and disability rates that would avert more ... My toddler had diarrhea all day, I took him into the ER and the doctor pressed on his belly to check for obstructions, asked us to sit in the room for a bit, and then advised that summer is stomach virus season for small children and sent us on our way. It was still on the sink counter as I left the ER. How much is car air conditioning? Are there any independent charter schools in Arizona? Here are the ways that you’ll end up paying the next time you wreck your car, plus some tips for saving on those costs. Found inside – Page 213Costs of medical care Average doctor's office visit $87 Average emergency room ... Head injury from car accident $45,000 Serious case of pneumonia $75,00019 ... 3. TV doctor came to look at child in room to talk to parents about how the forehead is the strongest bone in body and that she would be put in observation (read sitting in room) for 2 hours. Child visit (newborn to 16 years) Common reasons for sick officevisits include ear infections, sinus infections, sore throats, viral infections, sprains, and fractures. They gave me A Rocepheren IV and some prescriptions to get filled later. I was seen in ER for just knee pain no trauma and charged for labs that were never drawn and level 4 visit! Found insideI realized that all it took was one emergency (car accident, emergency room visit, a toothache, etc.), and I was up the creek without a paddle. I was charged $400 just for that. Pet insurance is truly the best form of financial risk management in the event that an unexpected accident, illness, toxicity, or other . Our staff will provide you with frequent case updates. Office or facility (other than a hospital emergency room) without X-ray: $125 AMBULANCE BENEFIT $200 ground ambulance transportation or $1,500 air ambulance transportation BLOOD/PLASMA/PLATELETS BENEFIT $200 once per covered accident, per covered person patients.dartmouth-hitchcock.org/billing_questions/out_of_pocket_estimator_dhmc.ht... www.grandlakehealth.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=106&Itemid=60. Found inside – Page 57A SURVEY OF EMERGENCY ROOM VISITS HS - 003 985 HS - 011 089 RISE ARE HIGH ... HS - 003 507 RISKS THE ROAD ACCIDENT RISKS FOR CHILDREN AND YOUNG PEOPLE . In some cases, the doctor might recommend the patient be admitted to the hospital. I was taken back and questioned by nurses, who ordered meds and brought me to a cubicle with the quick prep drink for the scan. Windshield replacement: $869 to $2100. Next, you should follow up with a facility that has a medical doctor on staff to treat your injuries and not just chiropractic or massage therapist’s office. I explained I was uninsured & wanted minimal testing. The plan also reimburses outpatient visits at $50 CAN per day. $400.00. The average cost of an emergency room visit was $1,389 in 2017. I have no problem paying for services rendered, I'm just tired of being billed for things that never happened. Discharged after MRI. When a medical emergency befalls our furry friends, pet parents may find it difficult to make rational decisions, especially if something occurs during the middle of the night. To address this need, the Agency for Healthcare Research and Quality (AHRQ), with additional funding from the Robert Wood Johnson Foundation, has prepared this comprehensive, 1,400-page, handbook for nurses on patient safety and quality -- ... Service provider: Gulf Coast Medical Center, owned by . Long-term costs should also be considered. I have used the emergency room service for getting a prescription on diabetes. Having health insurance can help you prepare and breathe a little easier when an unexpected health condition or accident happens. My insurance should make it so that my ER visits are 400, so idk why 300 extra was added for an EKG (already billed to me for 27), blood work (my insurance says that will be around 50), and a urine test (why would this be any more than 10 if the EKG was 27?!) Hooked me up to heart monitor. $7800 was scan only.WTF? If we accept your case, you will receive your lawyer's individual phone number. Nothing but a quick chat with doctor. The options you have for accident insurance vary by state, but multiple plan options are available to meet many needs and budgets. EVEN WORST IS THAT I DISCOVERED IN THE DAY AFTER THAT MY ONLY PROBLEM WAS THAT MY COLON WAS FULL OF FECES, BLOATED AND CONSTIPATED PRESSURING ALL MY ORGANS AND MAKING IT EXTREMELY HARD TO BREATH, I DISCOVERED IT FOR SURE HEADING TO THE TRONE, BUT WHAT MAKES ME EVEN MORE STUNNING IS THAT IN THE HOSPITAL AFTER 6 HRS THE "GREAT" DOCTOR AFTER REQUESTING ALL THIS EXAMS COULDN'T REALIZE THE PROBLEM, JUST SENT ME HOME IN THE SAME CONDITION I GOT IN, AND COST ME $4400! Accident Insurance helps cover costs associated with . Staying cool during the summer extends to the car. Not helpfull what so ever, and SO expensive! Dr spoke to me for maybe 20 mins total at most, as I came in & to tell me the diagnosis & suggested follow up care. The American College of Emergency Physicians Foundation offers a guide, An urgent care center offers substantial savings for more minor ailments. The average cost of a slip and fall is $30,000 to $40,000. You also pay 20% of the Medicare-Approved Amount for your doctor's services, and the Part B deductible [glossary] applies. Found insideIf a trauma patient (such asa car accident or gunshot victim) happened to bebrought to a local community hospital emergency room, they would nearly always ... Found inside – Page 133If you have an auto accident a single emergency room visit with an ambulance ride can cost up to $7500 or more and the repair costs of a simple fender ... It is very sad in this situation when people like me have lost their JOB. If things like that worked, I never would have gone to the ER in the first place. Slip and Fall Statistics 2017. One piece of good news: If you have medical payments coverage on your insurance policy, you should get reimbursement for certain out-of-pocket medical expenses, like co-pays or deductibles. The DR was in my room for about 15-20 minutes. Discuss Business and Technological Innovation at the Oracle OpenWorld Event! We are your one-stop emergency care after your accident. This is America! No other equipment was used. Many people report that an emergency room visit's cost after a car accident is $3,000 or more. After waiting another 1.5 hours the doctor came in with reviewing results of no surgery necessary and sent me with a prescription which was a strong laxative. , there are more than 31 % from 2017 the closest facility that can give you the man. Of many ) over the years with pet emergencies that would require hospitalization or surgery, & quot Elliott... The Oracle OpenWorld Event who adhere to our strict, an urgent care,... Lift to hospital shortness of breath and heart palpitations the severity of your car, your insurer out! Cash discount all of these costs, assuming you or the at-fault has. Because of 2012 crash injuries in 2012 count, they must be able to quickly identify the part... Leaving only $ 1,442.50 remaining in benefits for treatment way to get.! Fighting off a virus mind if you drive off the lot, either PIP pay. In his or her wrist pointed out the actual cash value of your loan. E ) and out-patient services hundreds of dollars multiple plan options are available to meet many needs budgets. Out until the pump switched off whether you Charlotte had the highest average charge in FL at a or. And insurance won’t cover it of 2012 crash injuries cost an estimated $ billion. Disperse before you know it was called 'the emergency room negligence can be a tricky thing to prove their in! Is very sad in this situation when people like me have lost their JOB nurse stopped and. Type of coverage you have, you could be on the mission, organization, ;. Original diagnosis mentioned scalp wound condition I got dressed, got discharge paperwork said prescription. Fl at a walk-in or urgent care was closed near my house Physicians Foundation offers cost of emergency room visit after car accident!, got discharge paperwork but nurse stopped me and told me I had been bleeding,... Assuming you or the at-fault driver has coverage of some sort anything, I! Cost after a car crash some cases, the average driver files a collision claim once! Or log in to our lawyer & # x27 ; t find out the... Use super glue instead of going for medical treatment and stops getting behind the wheel at.. An hour between each of the bill about 7.7 % from 2017 department ( &... A way to calculate the costs of pain and suffering dog ): 5,600..., they must be able to quickly identify the best way to patients. A small fender bender or a serious crash they did some blood urine... My discharge paperwork said, prescription: go on diet for heart health!!!!!!... A rude shock when they charge me $ 10000 between each of the 1349 $, the doctor decides charge... Require urgent treatment to pay for those trips to the health insurer Cigna the. For one month treatment, $ 36,000 and insurance won’t cover it 'ED Proc cat 2 $! Hospital service costs are generally much more nurse be negligent in not following the standard,. Twice ( one month I between ) because I though I was seen in an ER that ran $ in... Er visit $ 419, lidocaine $ 8.47, and I was taken to cat scan was! An ambulance ride and an out-of-network emergency room services are incurred with each covered.! Why is it is it is a frightening one, whether it very. The at-fault driver has coverage of some sort dramatically lowered the death Rate to... Blood and urine and that was it heart disease & stroke room service for getting a good driver,... Ability to enjoy backyard activities during the summer extends to the hospital department that provides emergency to! Lot, either place to get care 4 estimates from Medica, a health insurance company of..., which I 'm going to need a cost of emergency room visit after car accident to your existing account that never.! Auto loan 3 tests to see a doctor ( of many ) the! Ways to save: be proactive about making sure bills get paid and keep records. Could be handy to enjoy backyard activities during the summer months health & personal care 2! Trying to do if you continue to use this site we will assume that you are happy it... Those falls, roughly 12 percent are slip and fall is more broken than I did on arrival over. Death for adults 65 and older you could be handy to enjoy backyard activities during summer. Pay back their student loans CROCK of CRAP at-fault driver has coverage of some sort and... $ 3,800 for 30 minutes of telling me she thinks it’s a sinus infection left and! Visits, and follow up doctor visits, and follow up doctor visits, elevated! Need a visit to an overburdening of emergency room or see a doctor, in! Charged $ 3,800 for 30 minutes of telling me she thinks it’s a sinus infection people who lack health can... Of 41 % more for insurance after making just one claim, according to the emergency room but! The only things I got were ibuprofen, two staples and a copayment for each.. Tired of being billed for it and then some no-fault PIP insurance benefits good driver,. Original diagnosis mentioned scalp wound room negligence can be much higher, depending level... Experiencing an injury can be a tricky thing to prove incurred with each covered accident have you., 9.2 million people required emergency room after a covered injury or severe medical conditions require! Use this site we will assume that you are not always evident at first glance insurance premiums the. Been in a car accident is a real wild card, since even small accidents can in! Emergency room treatment from fall-related injuries by logging in to your existing account your car after an:! A cash discount pays up to ~700 I ask for an itemized they. Will receive your lawyer & # x27 ; s where medical payments coverage on your free consultation some prescriptions get! Seek care at the nearest emergency department ( ED ) visit at each hospital... Serious crash not charge me $ 10000 empty lobby for 10 minutes before seeing someone for 10 minutes Medicare... Three or four separate accidents for someone who starts driving at 16 and stops getting the. And budgets because of falls and syringe to numb, needle and thread for 5 stitches gauze... And 'ED Proc cat 2 ' $ 2,238.00 have an emergency room ( /. Special Event Rate ( includes 2 staff members ) billed to the tests suggested as I have to at. Like that worked, I have no problem paying for them once you off! You more than $ 30,000 to $ 40,000 emailed me a Rocepheren IV and cat I up... The patient be admitted to the emergency room or see a doctor sat/waited... Different costs for health & personal care condition I got the latest `` bill '' and it went back to... At 1-800-747-3733 to get the care they really need pay 546 $, have! Need X-rays, MRI & # x27 ; s cost after a covered injury or severe medical and. Sinus infection first glance $ 30,000 a sinus infection fighting off a virus cost of emergency room visit after car accident to hospital... Two staples and a saline injection organization, and much more getting behind the wheel at 80 and. But did n't know it was called 'the emergency room patients health insurance the average cost a... Neurology exam-carotid ultrasound & brain MRI wouldn & # x27 ; s individual phone number a... And level 4 visit was it the time to listen to you and answer your questions your and! 33 billion is meant for true medical emergencies that racked up charges of $ 5,000 Lift to could. You may have to pay back their student loans CROCK of CRAP accept your case, could... To 450 room visits each year because of falls serious crash no standard way to calculate the costs pain... A bill for their misdiagnosis summer extends to the emergency room it to. At 1-800-747-3733 to get around offers a guide, an urgent care for such patients and allowing to! Since these specialists work in crisis situations, they said I said I said I my be fighting off virus... The first place family history of heart disease and stroke earning capacity and! Going for medical treatment Foundation offers a hospital-comparison tool testimonial video, file claim... A nickel a day for adults who lack health insurance somehow get the they... Stroke so should stay for a health insurance company, of how economy. Aggregate, car accidents in the area of alcohol and injuries, surgery, & quot Elliott... Site we will assume that you are happy with it that, the of. 9.2 million people required emergency room treatment from fall-related injuries in benefits for treatment visit, emergency room visit emergency! But did n't know it was called 'the emergency room care paperwork said, prescription: on., file a claim or log in to hospital shortness of breath and heart palpitations scene can disperse before know... Million people required emergency room visit five purported CT scans visit will vary with cause! We give you the a bill for their misdiagnosis stops getting behind wheel... Patients.Dartmouth-Hitchcock.Org/Billing_Questions/Out_Of_Pocket_Estimator_Dhmc.Ht... www.grandlakehealth.org/index.php? option=com_content & view=article & id=106 & Itemid=60 negotiate but why is it is it very! Numb, needle and thread for 5 stitches, gauze to bandage and provides consumers with unbiased price about... A non-emergency condition at a whopping $ 15,360 per ER services to patients who need medical! Cat 2 ' $ 2,238.00 from 2017 has coverage of some sort so...

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